Can Google Ads Survive?
The Constant Challenge of Paid Search Advertising on Google
Will Google Ads Survive? A Conversation on Paid Search Evolution
Google Ads has been a cornerstone of digital marketing for nearly two decades. From its early days as a disruptor to its current dominance in paid search and advertising, this platform has continuously shaped how businesses connect with their audiences. But as costs rise and complexities grow, many wonder: Will Google Ads remain viable, particularly for small businesses?
Matt Bailey visits with Sarah Steeman, a seasoned paid search expert with 17 years of experience, to discuss the challenges facing small businesses today.
The Evolution of Paid Search
Sarah’s journey into paid search began as a generalist with a foundation in SEO. She emphasized how her technical background in web development and SEO informed her approach to paid search.
“Knowing SEO makes you better at paid search,” Sarah shared. This holistic perspective allowed her to see the interplay between organic and paid strategies, helping businesses navigate the increasingly complex digital landscape.
The Small Business Dilemma
One critical challenge discussed was how Google Ads is marketed to small businesses. The platform often presents itself as easy to use, promising immediate results. However, Sarah cautioned that this “illusion of ease” can mislead business owners.
“Google Ads makes it look simple—throw some money, pick a keyword, and go to town,” she explained. But behind the scenes, success requires nuanced strategy, keyword selection, and budget management.
For small businesses, the lack of tools like account budget settings—available to larger brands—compounds the difficulty. As Sarah put it, “Google Ads feels like a minefield for small businesses, despite its user-friendly interface.”
Budgets: Then and Now
The landscape of paid search has changed dramatically over the years. Sarah recalled working with clients who, in 2015, spent tens of thousands of dollars monthly on supplements and niche products. Today, however, even major brands in retail struggle to justify similar expenditures.
“Media spend is more fragmented now,” Sarah noted. With programmatic advertising, CTV, and out-of-home campaigns competing for budget, Google Ads must fight for its share. This shift has raised the bar for agencies and consultants who need to demonstrate clear ROI to clients.
Adapting Strategies for Success
The discussion highlighted strategies to thrive in the current paid search ecosystem:
- Understand the Customer Journey: For industries like insurance or event venues, optimizing solely for end-goal conversions—like purchasing a policy—may be counterproductive. Sarah emphasized the importance of nurturing potential customers over time.
- Leverage Expertise: Whether through hiring a consultant or agency, businesses benefit from seasoned professionals who can navigate Google’s ever-changing algorithm. “You’re not just paying for ad management; you’re paying for experience,” Sarah stressed.
- Own Your Data: Sarah advised businesses to retain ownership of their ad accounts, ensuring continuity and historical data, which are invaluable for campaign optimization.
Looking Ahead: The Role of AI in Paid Search
A recurring theme was the increasing reliance on AI within Google Ads. While automation offers efficiencies, Sarah expressed concerns about blindly trusting algorithms.
“I can’t tell a client to trust AI when I don’t fully trust it myself,” she admitted. Instead, she advocated for a balance—leveraging AI for scale while maintaining human oversight for strategy.
Key Takeaways for Paid Search Newcomers
For those entering the industry, Sarah underscored the importance of mentorship and specialization. “Understanding the ‘why’ behind strategies is critical,” she said. Moreover, new professionals should seek to develop complementary skills in data analytics, storytelling, and client management.
The future of Google Ads and paid search is both challenging and full of opportunity. As businesses grapple with rising costs and increased competition, the need for strategic expertise has never been greater.
Whether you’re a small business owner or a paid search specialist, remember that success comes from adapting to change, embracing innovation, and prioritizing customer experience.
What challenges have you faced with Google Ads? Share your thoughts below!
Transcript – Can Google Ads Survive?
[00:00:00] Matt: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the endless coffee cup podcast, your source for digital marketing, education, and careers. And today I’ve got a great guest. I have heard her a couple of times speaking on paid search and immediately I thought, I’ve got to get her on the podcast. So Sarah, and I would like you to welcome Sarah Steeman.
[00:00:20] Matt: She has been in paid search for quite a while. But Sarah, if you could just give me just a quick introduction for the listeners about you and, how did you get into paid search?
[00:00:32] Sarah: Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. So yes, as you mentioned, my name is Sarah Steeman. I’ve been working in paid search for, I calculated 17 years. And so I got into paid search by accident but also listening to good mentors around me that, really guided me into where I believe I was meant to be.
[00:00:56] Matt: 17 years, that’s got to be about when Google started paid search.
[00:01:02] Sarah: Yeah, pretty close.
[00:01:04] Matt: Wow, that is fantastic. And I respect the paid side because I started organic. And I was one of those when Google first announced they were going to start using paid ads. They bought out, double click. I think it
[00:01:18] Sarah: Yes,
[00:01:18] Matt: Yeah. I was one of those that, Oh, you’re the purity, of results. And now here we are almost 20 years later and gone, completely. So let me ask you, how did you find your way into paid search?
[00:01:36] Sarah: So actually that’s a really great question and I should have clarified, I started out more as a generalist, so I also have a very big SEO background. In fact, I thought I was better at SEO before I went into paid search, so I’m able to leverage that. And then, I guess you start out doing anything and everything, and that’s and I do think that knowing anything and everything helps make you a better on the paid side, specifically.
[00:02:11] Matt: Absolutely. What was your background before you got into paid search?
[00:02:14] Sarah: So I actually came from a technology background, so I was a web developer. Also something I bring into paid search, so not a very good web developer, but I know how to, go in and open source and, open a notepad and open HTML and then have a close bracket.
[00:02:31] Matt: I always describe that to people. I said, I can read JavaScript. I just can’t write it. but yeah, that’s a skill that comes in very handy. That, having that background enables you to troubleshoot things at a much higher and faster level. I have found.
[00:02:49] Sarah: Exactly.
[00:02:51] Matt: Wow. So how did that influence your route into your, career in paid search?
[00:02:59] Sarah: So I would say, So if you remember, the old school SEO, we’re showing you number one, number two, like you would really present to the client their position on the SERP.
[00:03:32] Sarah: And then it was around 2014, 2015, when we kept having to tell clients, they would sit there and Google themselves and say, I’m not number one. And we’d say, there is no one page of search and that just conversation became very hard. I also, at that time was independent as well. And so I would come in and I talk SEO strategy, but great.
[00:03:54] Sarah: We want to do that. Okay, guess what? Now you have to hire a team of writers and also, and I think this is going to be a looser view on SEO. You need a social team because I was at one time consulting to clients who were plagued with bad reviews. And so they didn’t own their entire first page of search and they thought we could SEO our way out of it.
[00:04:16] Sarah: And I was actually, no, you now need to own your properties on Facebook, on all the social platforms. So to me that transition into paid was just a natural, easier step. So it was advantageous at the time as someone on my own.
[00:04:33] Matt: Fantastic. I love that. You say you were on your own. Where did you work? And, cause you’ve got a crazy impressive resume.
[00:04:42] Sarah: Yeah, thank you. Hopefully clients will actually think that because sometimes I feel like when I get on the phone with clients, they’re always wanting you to prove yourself. So I started at Nationwide Insurance in house, and then I always say my career changes for every time I had a kid.
[00:04:59] Sarah: So when I was on my own. I actually had a recruiter call me and the recruiter said, we want to bring you on for this agency role, having been on the client side and seeing how incredibly amazing, but very challenging the agency side was, I said, I would not be interested in going to an agency. And then working with the recruiter, they came up with the idea of me essentially being an independent person that went into all the agencies in town and consulted.
[00:05:28] Sarah: So I built that relationship through the recruiting company. And then, it would go in as an individual contributor to those agencies that they have the relationship with. Oh,
[00:05:41] Matt: If you don’t mind me asking, who are some of the clients and just to give people a sense of the size of budgets that a lot of companies deal with. I was talking to my assistant the other day, just telling them that, there are people that manage these kinds of budgets on the paid side.
[00:05:58] Sarah: yeah. So it’s interesting, back in, and this is where sometimes I feel like, it’s a little scary to see now. So I guess I’m not going to be, I’ll be specific on some brands, but then other brands, I won’t. So like we worked with a supplement brand. I don’t know if they’re still around today called speed winds.
[00:06:17] Sarah: and supplements, did fairly well. So they would be on Amazon and Google. They would be spending at least 30, 40, 000 a month in Google ads on, different, and when I say pills, I It would be like man’s balding. These were like things that were like, you would be surprised the budgets and how much people have purchased them.
[00:06:40] Sarah: they also have like deer antler spray, like supplements for bodybuilding and things like that. it just shocks me. But again, a great company, great client that I was working with an agency on that client. So it wasn’t my individual client. But then I’ll look at brands today, in 2024 and brands that, again, I won’t be specific because I don’t know about some of the contracts I’m under, like brands that you could find if I said their names at a local store, like a Walmart, a Home Depot, a Lowe’s, a Target, and I would look at their monthly budget and it would not be what a supplement company was spending in 2015.
[00:07:22] Sarah: So I think things have shifted a little bit. Now, that said, that media spend is spread out. So, you might have the programmatic side, some out of home advertising, some CTV. There’s been a shift back and forth, especially when that, goal is to support a brand versus just convert, convert, convert.
[00:07:45] Sarah: So
[00:07:49] Matt: Okay.
[00:07:56] Sarah: But then it becomes a matter of do optimize towards actually getting that online customer.
[00:08:11] Sarah: And I think this is something that when I work with small businesses, I really have to challenge some of their views because a small business wants to optimize towards that end goal. So, if I was working with a great example would be. An event venue, right? So we have all these open spaces. A lot of these open offices want to get into event hosting.
[00:08:33] Sarah: They want to run paid search and they’ll want to optimize towards a booked party, booked wedding. And I have to pull them back and say, people are researching if your key optimization is. Book today, that’s a little too much too soon. And so to pull that into kind of back it up into multi billions of dollars of insurance, if you’re optimizing towards, by a policy today, that’s not going to be as effective, or you’re going to end up with a customer that ultimately is booking their policy because they’re not carrying insurance and they need it real quick before the car gets repoted, right?
[00:09:12] Sarah: It’s not the type of customer That walks into an insurance office and builds that relationship and then has, home, auto, all the riders and everything. So there’s a lot more of that conversation and sophistication that goes into big budgets. So I hopefully take and teach smaller companies.
[00:09:33] Matt: It’s very interesting and I think a lot of this is because of the way that Google ads is set up and promoted and just to warn people ahead of time. This isn’t so much Google bashing as it’s honesty about what we wrote. I think, and I know this to be true. They, say it’s easy and they show it as easy, but it leads you down an odd path.
[00:09:59] Matt: And one that if people who know paid search know that this isn’t the way to set it up. But the way they lead you, they make you believe you throw some money, pick a word, and we go to town. And I think that now in small businesses, to bring in a consultant, they’re looking at the interface going, this is easy.
[00:10:20] Matt: Why would I pay someone to do this?
[00:10:22] Sarah: Right. But every single, and I try to, so the things that, and I think this again, having worked on major brands all the way down to small businesses. So here are things that companies don’t understand the interface I look at with a fortune 500 company in a big MCC and sub MCC, I have different settings.
[00:10:41] Sarah: That happens all the time where I’ll see a setting. Or I’ll see a feature. So like a big one to me, and I always say, I remember where I was sitting when certain big announcements were made. So there’s a account budget where you can go in and say, this is my account budget. And in larger brands, because of how they work, I can actually set quarterly budgets.
[00:11:02] Sarah: I could set different amounts and then literally the ads will stop serving when it hits that number. And so I have to take that PO and I have to make a PO every month. That isn’t in my average small business. I have to actually sit there as the specialist and track that. And so when small businesses have this requirement of a spend and they’re like, I only want 2000.
[00:11:25] Sarah: I don’t want to spend a dime over that. I’m sitting there taking Tums because I don’t have the setting I have, in a larger.
[00:11:33] Matt: All right.
[00:11:49] Sarah: it’s just, it is harder for the small business, but Google makes it look easier. And then I think you made a point earlier about, how Google ads has been sold. So I and I think cause you have the agency background, I blame Google, but I also blame agencies because agencies took the easy route.
[00:12:09] Sarah: It’s increase your revenue, get immediate. And I’m like, that’s actually not the case anymore. We can start to push that in the right direction, but we as a business and as an agency or a consultant need to work very, closely. And to be totally frank, you need to have the budget to be able to pay the expert, as well as your ads.
[00:12:32] Sarah: So it’s like that bar, it’s just harder today.
[00:12:35] Matt: Budgets are different today. It’s, not what it was 10 years ago. It’s not what it was, even five years ago. prices have gone up significantly. So has it priced small businesses out? Let me ask you that.
[00:12:51] Sarah: So I believe, yeah, I had a big poll that I did on LinkedIn and I said, is paid search dying? And I think it, was interesting because one thing, if you haven’t done a LinkedIn poll, people might not know is I actually not only can see the votes the tally, but I could see who voted in which direction and knowing the cloud, the industry cloud of who voted on behalf of it’s dying versus who didn’t.
[00:13:25] Sarah: What’s interesting to me, that being said, I think the management aspect is potentially less impactful than it used to be or less affordable in some ways. So you have to really, when you come in as a consultant. Yes, like I can get the ads in shape that gets me really far. I do really well with the B2B space in particular because sometimes they’re ahead of their competitors there, but, I would say, you need to look at the landing page, the business as a whole, the keyword.
[00:13:58] Sarah: There’s just so much strategy. and that’s tough for people because my friend, another Patriot influencer said people don’t like to buy strategy.
[00:14:10] Matt: Yeah, And I was like, I agree.
[00:14:12] Matt: What goes back to what you said, when I’m buying ads, I’m thinking of the end goal. No, I’m not thinking of the process, the, the, we would call it the customer journey, that comparison, the research and, people don’t want, they don’t have patience for that. I want that immediate.
[00:14:31] Matt: And yeah, It’s a fun process to sell people on that everyone’s competing down here
[00:14:39] Sarah: Yes, everyone’s great.
[00:14:41] Matt: Yeah, you need to move further in.
[00:14:43] Sarah: In watching the paid search, the agency model too. As when we started, it was 25 percent of spend. It’s come down to 10 percent of spend. And I’ve seen agencies go even further down, 500 a month. And I try to , I even had a discovery call this week with an agency, and I commend them for reaching out and saying, we have not been able to have success hiring in house or freelance.
[00:15:15] Sarah: And then I said, how many accounts are they managing? And I’m not going to share a number, but I’m going to say that made my jaw fall on the floor. And I had to explain, the amount of time that it takes for these accounts to put it. Set it up for success, essentially.
[00:15:34] Matt: Absolutely. I can’t believe the cost of managing an account has dropped that much because
[00:15:41] [00:15:41] Matt: from what I’ve seen, it requires more time and attention than ever.
[00:15:44] Sarah: yeah, it does. Especially on the small, like the 2, $3,000 accounts and especially in a highly, again, I don’t want to, I’m not under an NDA, but I don’t want to share too much, but this was like a highly competitive space. And so the vulnerability on a $2,000 account is that let’s pretend it’s not a plumber, but let’s pretend it’s a plumber, because I feel like that could be a good cross reference.
[00:16:12] Sarah: If one plumber comes into the industry, into that auction, they can all of a sudden drive costs up. And so if you’re doing something where you’re on this, automated bidding tools, and the person is managing, for example, 40 or 50 accounts, and they don’t see the auction and that person come in.
[00:16:31] Sarah: All of a sudden you’re paying so much more per click. In that 2000, there’s no room.
[00:16:37] Sarah: So the account needs to be watched, not necessarily changed every two seconds. There’s just a lot of nuance and layers to this job.
[00:16:47] Matt: Oh, absolutely. I cringe when I see all of the changes that have taken place in paid search since. I’ll say 2020, because I think that was when so many things started changing and I noticed even some, small accounts that I would manage for people, all of a sudden there’s keywords showing up that this isn’t even, this isn’t even in the realm of possibility.
[00:17:13] Matt: And Google is saying, you need to spend more so that we can learn more. I’m like, why don’t you let me define that? And that I think to me is the most frustrating part right now of the whole system.
[00:17:24] Sarah: yeah. And it was interesting. I agree with you. I think since 2020, and I can’t believe it’s been four years since
[00:17:30] Sarah: then. I can’t believe. I do agree. I think there’s been a lot of changes. But I also think, and I will plug Optimizer here and Nava and Fred, for all the case studies and sharing that they put.
[00:17:44] Sarah: Because any one account doesn’t have the data that we used to have. So being plugged into the industry and seeing, so like one thing, I don’t know if some of their latest studies, I don’t know if this one’s been published yet. So I’m going to try to be, just say one thing when we look holistically at data to think about it’s when we are looking at data as a person.
[00:18:10] Sarah: We also need to be considering that the algorithm actually may not be as like, completely false. So we had roles of a hundred, right? Hundred clicks or more and no conversions then I would change the bid. A hundred, dollars or more, and no conversions and we have a bit change. So while we criticize the algorithm, I think the understanding of how we work as humans needs to be a factor because I have been working in accounts where I’ve been told, Oh, don’t even pay attention to that.
[00:18:38] Sarah: Just change the bed. So, having that context of 15 years, I know what’s happening behind the system, but not, having that, I think hurts some of the newer people coming in sometimes.
[00:19:04] Matt: Yeah
[00:19:05] Matt: , and seeing that move towards more AI being used and, I don’t know about you, but for me, it makes me very uncomfortable when it seems like the sales pitch is trust does. Yeah. We’ll figure it out for you. Just give us the money. I can’t do that to a client,
[00:19:26] Sarah: Correct.
[00:19:27] Matt: But yet Google seems to be holding that as their line.
[00:19:30] Sarah: Yeah. No, I and the historical success, When it’s frankly a much more crowded market.
[00:19:39] Sarah: It’s no longer the, let’s try Google ads. And I feel compassion for the business owner because sometimes what happens, it’s just like our industry is close, you’ll have industry.
[00:19:50] Sarah: If it’s really close and they say, hey, my buddy said, they’ve been running Google ads, they’ve been successful. Like your buddy started his campaign in 2010. so they bought into all this data when it was cheap. And now you’re starting today.
[00:20:04] Sarah: It’s just tougher and someone, when I was working at Hennepin, they had the PPC hero blog, a bunch of great PPCers there.
[00:20:14] Sarah: They told me in 2015, actually, she said, I believe simpler accounts are grandfathered into old rules. And she said that in the context of when we were doing account restructures a lot there, we were bringing in, it’s so funny, five years later, we still restructure, but back then, and she said, sometimes when you restructure, you want to be really, careful because the account could be performing under sort of old rules.
[00:20:43] Sarah: And now if I were to contextualize that statement to 2024, I’d say you bought your data a long time ago when it was cheaper and your account as a whole has its own brain. That sets you up a little bit more successfully.
[00:20:58] Matt: Yeah. Oh, that is a great way of looking at it. I can appreciate that because yeah, that’s, what we’re being told now is that Google has to learn what to do. Why is that always starting over fresh with a new account? Isn’t there a way that because I’m in this industry that Google can pull data from other similar companies or does it have to be very unique to that business and what they’re doing?
[00:21:26] Matt: Okay. It feels to that business. I would recommend, I tell clients like own your own ad account, never let that go. I wouldn’t ever say start a new account. I would, pause everything and make it high as much as you can.
[00:21:39] Matt: Okay.
[00:21:42] Sarah: and then build campaigns and maybe through that slow approach of a reorder, so I often take an analogy.
[00:21:50] Sarah: From my personal life that I think might resonate here, especially if someone’s not as familiar with paid search. So my group of sort of industry colleagues are also well known in the paid search industry. And what is so funny is when I talk to someone who I met on LinkedIn, or I talked to someone in my audience and I will say Oh, like Julie Buccini or, Matt Umbro, or someone who I know.
[00:22:19] Sarah: I picked Matt because he, was started the PPC chat or, someone, I’ll mention Nova, they’ll say, who, I don’t know who you’re talking about. And I’m thinking that’s so odd because if you look at my LinkedIn and how I interact with, I assume because my audience is, five, 6, 000, that you must know Julie, whose audience is the same size.
[00:22:45] Sarah: And you must know Boris who has 14, 000 followers on LinkedIn. But it’s not, my audience is very unique to me based on the fact that, I started in house in Columbus and I have this, so accounts are very similar. We assume that another account or another business is similar because they’re same category, but their stands, their followers, their uniqueness is, it’s their fingerprint.
[00:23:12] Sarah: And I think that’s a really cool concept in life.
[00:23:15] Matt: That is a great, metaphor. I like that. yeah, it stands to reason because I’ve been in numerous conversations where people, because you’re in an industry, they assume, you must know this person because that’s in their realm. And I’m like, I’ve been in this for quite a while, but no,
[00:23:32] Sarah: Yeah.
[00:23:33] Matt: Yeah, same thing. We’ve got our circles.
[00:23:35] Sarah: Yeah. So in life, it impedes search. Some definite mis energies, but I think that’s the reality.
[00:23:42] Matt: So I love that metaphor. And I think another thing I would like to ask is, we address this a little earlier. It’s gotten so much more complicated.
[00:23:52] Matt: And what are the big obstacles that let’s say if a small business wants to start up or someone who’s maybe new to the paid search industry, what are those big red flags they’ve got to watch out for when setting up an account or starting to develop a campaign?
[00:24:12] Sarah: I would say the illusion of ease and the almost like the dream building that the propaganda that Google and other agencies do.
[00:24:22] Matt: Yes. So, we’re marketers, we put forth, that we are the proprietary solution. I do definitely don’t say that, Like the industry is as big. So I would say I’ll start with the first, so pretend I’m a business and I’m, like, I want to run Google ads.
[00:24:45] Sarah: if you want to do it yourself, the setup process is not set in your favor. if you were to just start it, they’re immediately going to push you into smart campaigns or Google ads express and that where they push you in even the signup process. If you decided to do it on your own, you’re running in a completely different system.
[00:25:05] Sarah: We use an MCC, so we use a advanced features. And the last time I went over this with a small business owner, I’m like, okay, I can’t even find how to do this. Like, why don’t I set it up first? So automatically out of the gate, you’re in a, huge problem.
[00:25:22] Matt: Okay.
[00:25:51] Sarah: Really low with big promises, you have to really question that because if the fee is set really low with big promises, you’re going to be a number and there’s going to be 60 other clients.
[00:26:02] Sarah: I’ve also seen, 500 a month or 200 a month to manage, and they’ll circumvent the ads platform and then put you into a system. Like they’ll just show you like pure leads, but you don’t actually know what those leads are. So I would say to the business owner, check your gut. And then also if it’s really cheap, like you need to ask yourselves why a true expert, unfortunately is going to be, a couple thousand a month.
[00:26:32] Sarah: And so I think that agency trap is a really scary one. That ability to afford is going to be a place cause you’re hiring something you don’t know, like
[00:26:44] Sarah: a woman walking into a mechanic. It’s tough. We don’t know what we don’t know. I hate saying
[00:26:50] Matt: Oh, it’s not just a woman. Let me tell you that.
[00:26:52] Sarah: Okay, that makes me
[00:26:53] Matt: let me. It’s not just a woman walking into a mechanic.
[00:26:57] Sarah: When you’re a business owner and you want to buy an agency, you’re walking into a situation that you don’t know. And so there’s that. And so then I would say just also like knowledge of what’s available. So like you and I have talked that I changed my business model to just be one where I pick up the phone and answer questions and consult.
[00:27:16] Sarah: Now, do I charge for that? Yes, but it’s a couple hundred bucks. That’s no skin off the business owner’s back. And in that call, I’m like, this is what you need to look for, or I will charge not very much to set up the account for you as a business owner and teach them how to manage it. Because I take the stance of if you’re a business owner and enough to be dangerous, you’re now going to avoid some of the traps that you would fall in now with management, I think, again, just
[00:27:50] Sarah: the gaslighting and the, in your gut, when somebody’s not giving you a service delivered. And so I always say is your phone ringing? Are those quality leads? Don’t just trust what they’re saying. They’re sending because there is that huge quality. So, I can probably speak eight hours about all the traps a small business owner can fall into.
[00:28:13] Sarah: I really, my heart goes out to them in that situation.
[00:28:16] Matt: Absolutely. .
[00:28:24] Matt: And I get it. Yeah. You could do a 24 hour podcast on all the issues that small businesses owners need to work out. I know one who contacted me is, they report every month
[00:28:39] Sarah: Yeah. I get, a report and I’m supposed to know what the report means.
[00:28:44] Matt: and my response to them was, wait a minute, what did, what happened the first month after the setup? Did they come back to you at all during the month? And it was no, but then at the end of the month, they had suggestions for my landing pages. And I was like, Whoa, and there it is right there. I’ve seen so much of this that will run the campaign for 30, 60, 90 days. Then we’ll give you a report and, I’m right away. I’m telling people.
[00:29:15] Matt: no, no,
[00:29:15] Sarah: Yeah. you don’t know what conversions they set up. I think any person running a Google ads, not only should the business owner own it, but you should be able to open up their Google accounts and point to every single setting, every single keyword and be like, this is why I made this choice.
[00:29:32] Sarah: And this is why I made this choice. This is why I made this choice. Like I want my clients to understand so much about Google ads that they think they could do it on their own. And then the only value add that I’m essentially giving them at that point is the 15 years of experience and the fact that I sit there and listen and read every single thing that happens from Google, right?
[00:29:56] Sarah: That’s the true value ad is that like when Google says Oh, we came up with this new feature, I understand that impact and how that could change the account because I think a good, I have a lot of businesses where I built the campaign. I taught them how to run it. And then it’s just running and delivering and what the business owner now doesn’t know is that when it breaks, it’s breaking because Google made a change and you weren’t reading what Google is saying all day, which I am so I feel like there’s
[00:30:27] Sarah: that, as well. They lose in matching a little over the past couple of months. You as a business may not see the impact, negative impact of that, for two to three more months. And then you’re calling me and it’s an emergency and you’ve now trained the system to run after.
[00:30:42] Matt: I think people have an absolute fear I’ve noticed, in my classes, I will have people go in, create an account and just start setting up a campaign. Now these are brand new, like you said, the tools aren’t there, but I’m, walking them through and we’re explaining what each of these mean.
[00:31:02] Matt: And let’s get to the point where, yes, you can choose a smart campaign and see how it fills in or and I do encourage that. And then I ask them to compare what does the smart campaign do? How would you write these? but the feedback I get from students when they’re doing that is they are absolutely mortified and afraid that they’re going to push the wrong button. And it’s going to start charging him and I told him, you haven’t even put your credit card information in yet. Why are you afraid of this? But yet there is just this, fear and this, and people told me like the whole time I’m doing this, I’m just afraid I’m going to get charged.
[00:31:45] Sarah: I get it. I And it’s a strange feedback to get from that, but yet it is consistent.
[00:31:51] Matt: Okay.
[00:31:51] Sarah: Yeah. No, I, actually resonate with that because I always tell my clients right off the bat, I’m actually a very conservative account manager and in DecisionMaker. So for example, like if I were to open an account today and audit it, my first question would be like, okay, is the client happy?
[00:32:09] Sarah: So for example, I was looking at an account the other day and the minute I looked at it, it had 40 ad groups, only a couple of them were serving. And my immediate reaction, would be if I were given like an hour to look at it, it would be like, I would just get rid of all these ad groups that aren’t serving.
[00:32:28] Sarah: and start centralizing. But here’s the thing, I know centralizing would be right for the account, but I want to know. Is the business owner happy? Where are we going? And then I would actually centralize slower. I wouldn’t just pause even if I know it’s the right thing, I would do it really slowly, but I have talked to business owners.
[00:32:48] Sarah: They were like, okay, you said it’s the right thing to do. I’m not worried about it. Just go fast. In which case we’ll go faster. So I always have that conversation.
[00:32:55] Matt: Yeah. It’s interesting to see, like when you get into an account, you see all these things here and how they’re set up. And one of the questions I always ask companies is how many people have been in here?
[00:33:05] Matt: It seems to be, if I know there’s five or more agencies or something, then I know, I, this isn’t going to last too long.
[00:33:15] Matt: I’m not going to put too much in, but, seeing some of how people do things. And that was one thing when I did a lot of training, especially for larger companies,
[00:33:25] Matt: just, I would give them, here’s five questions to ask in your meeting. And I would give them that because they weren’t asking any questions.
[00:33:37] Matt: They would get a report. They didn’t know what anything meant. And, number one question was how many ad groups do we have?
[00:33:45] Sarah: right. And, what are we focusing on in those ad groups, just the basics. And once they started asking those questions, the agency freaked.
[00:33:59] Sarah: Of course I did. It’s a wonderful experience.
[00:34:04] Sarah: And what’s interesting is the agency shouldn’t freak if they have somebody who understands what they’re doing, because for me, so I’m going to put myself in the agency. If somebody said, how many ad groups do you have? I would answer them, but I would also be a little concerned that the business is that granular, but I would talk about it.
[00:34:22] Sarah: So, but I know exactly what you’re saying. If you have this more junior people and we’re talking about what’s happening. let’s just be blunt. There is not enough margin in agencies right now. And so agencies are finding ways to cut, so less cheaper employees. And, less service, less, get on the phone for an hour or so and hash through an account.
[00:34:47] Sarah: And that’s a disservice to the people, especially in this economy who need it. The consultation even more because in a Google ads account, it’s not lying. I know, are your ads working or what are the people doing? it’s someone, there’s a human behind all this data, right?
[00:35:06] Sarah: And we see it in aggregate there. I guess something that also I should, I know that, so you’re, what’s a trainer? You work with a lot of students, right? one thing I also think is like a good skill is the ability to be able to read a job description and the ability to be able to understand what’s being asked for, and then understand that there are certain roles that I think from what the ask is, maybe are not set up for success.
[00:35:37] Matt: Tell me more about that.
[00:35:39] Sarah: So like I was looking at one the other day and I’m like, SEO, social and paid ads with one year of experience. And my jaw fell on the floor a little bit. I just think it’s too much to ask somebody to be an expert in all those. Now, that being said, I know SEO pretty well, like I used to do it.
[00:36:01] Sarah: I used to be better at SEO than PPC, but it’s really important to, it’s If you’re, like, a plumber, it’d be nice to be able to do drywall, too. You should be able to know your way around something. But, your expertise is in a very specific
[00:36:18] Matt: Yeah, it is. It’s asking for someone to be an expert plumber, electrician, drywall, and I, we have talked about this numerous times on, other episodes, especially ones where we’re talking about job surveys and things like that. That it seems like employers just, I want someone who can do this. And my daughter runs into this. She’s a photographer and they bring her in. Can you do video?
[00:36:46] Sarah: Video. editing? Can you do, portraits.
[00:36:50] Matt: Yeah. can you make social video?
[00:36:52] Matt: Can you, she’s no,
[00:36:55] Sarah: Nature photography is a different skill set, and a different lenses and different, than being, a wedding photographer that has to take wide range, get all the people, frankly, positioned with the appropriate, wide range, people don’t like pictures when they don’t look good.
[00:37:13] Sarah: It is a different skill set. then, so I definitely, and then the idea of having video in,
[00:37:21] Matt: Yeah. and, even the same thing, and we were talking through this and she’s just because you can take video doesn’t mean you can edit video.
[00:37:28] Matt: video there is a whole different mindset and mentality of taking raw video and turning it into something special. And people don’t realize
[00:37:39] Sarah: Exactly. And I think too, I still, I see this a lot too with and I’m probably just thinking because of this most recent, the pure number of accounts. So when you’re deciding, I want to get into paid search, I want to get into SEO, 20 accounts might not seem like a lot. That’s a lot of accounts.
[00:38:03] Sarah: And then also and this again, I think without that experience, people just don’t know. And then be like, okay, the salary is 50, 000. let me do some math for you here. If that agency is charging for 20 paid search accounts, a minimum retainer of a thousand dollars, which is a cheap retainer.
[00:38:25] Sarah: That’s 20, 000 a month in revenue that you as an employee are contributing to that agency. So I think doing that backwards math and asking yourself. is your 50, 000 for 20, 000 a month in revenue a fair, equitable change? yeah, they might have benefits and, oh, you just drank good coffee, but it’s unfortunately without that experience, you don’t know.
[00:38:50] Matt: Yes. Absolutely. and that is a great point. I, perfect segue because I was going to ask you from a career standpoint, what would you be telling someone who, first of all, let’s look at the paid search industry right now, as it sits, where do you see it going in the next five?
[00:39:10] Matt: I don’t even want to say 10 years. I don’t even want to think about that just in the next five years. What do you see happening in the paid search industry?
[00:39:27] Sarah: I maintain that, but don’t. It’s just a tough industry. So if I were to tell somebody, if they said I wanna get into it today, I would focus on getting a mentor and just really going back and understanding the concepts and asking why, is it this way? Why is it this way? Because the key advantage that I have is just context with everything that I think coming into industry knew that’s lacking. And so it makes it harder right out of the gate. I do say, agencies can be tough environments where you’re working on a lot of accounts, you’re spread thin, they can be fantastic places to learn. There are obviously really good agencies out there. I think just sometimes the ones that aren’t necessarily aligned do mask a lot of the good ones out there. So don’t be opposed to an agency role. I think agencies, you just get exposed to so much.
[00:40:29] Matt: You get paid to learn that’s part of it. Yeah. And one thing I love about the agency is you work B2B, B2C, you learn the differences on types of business, and even strategies and that’s what I tell people, you get paid to learn. But I love how you focused on the mentorship aspect because this is such a specialized area.
[00:40:51] Matt: I’ve even said from the SEO standpoint, and even then when I’ve had to do this week, like there’s the strict definition of SEO and then there’s the broad definition. And I use it in the broadest possible, which is making websites better, that it can only truly be learned by apprenticeship because there’s so much
[00:41:15] Matt: back data, as you were referring to earlier, so much data that’s accumulated from the account that you understand how to apply it. And I think both of these, there’s a lot of information, but how you apply it is going to be very different. And you only get that background with that, mentorship or apprenticeship.
[00:41:34] Matt: Okay.
[00:41:53] Sarah: Past to the role as a paid search. So I gave the example of, my audience and then tying that into how an account works.
[00:42:05] Sarah: So if you couldn’t work pulling in analogies and being, I’m just giving like the paid search person, but you’ve studied psychology so much, then you’re going to be able to offer paid search from my standpoint of the psychological stance that the person’s in as they’re searching, you may be a design expert, then landing pages.
[00:42:29] Sarah: So I think marrying that, that knowledge with whatever you did in your past career to, really make yourself really, unique.
[00:42:40] Matt: Absolutely. And yeah, the application of other disciplines, I’ve seen many people attempting paid search, but have no clue about landing page and conversion optimization, which, yeah, it’s not dealing in the account interface. It’s actually going and looking at the website.
[00:42:59] Sarah: And it can be, your knowledge of the law and disclaimers and making claims. it can be, almost anything in the world and applying that, to paid search that is of value.
[00:43:17] Matt: Let’s see if we can get a little granular. What kind of skills, if we were to list out the, the very specific skills that you would say are required for a paid search specialist?
[00:43:31] Sarah: So in the old days, I would have said Excel, which is funny. yeah, best tool Yeah ever. today I would say, like data analytics for sure. the ability to understand how multiple messages, and then I would also say it’s like storytelling, but for the client. So like explaining why things matter.
[00:43:57] Sarah: So storytelling, analytics, I think just like that human aspect and ability to know that you don’t know everything, I, think is really, so it’s some of those softer skills, back in the day, I thought, oh, I have to know everything, but now,
[00:44:15] Sarah: I just realised that not the case always and again, it goes back to Google ads, Is, like back in the day, it was like, you’re just good at Google ads.
[00:44:30] Sarah: Now it’s, you’re good at Google ads lead gen. You’re good at Google ads, e com, you’re good at Google ads, home services. you’re good at, the different spaces and then knowing those businesses and how those businesses operate.
[00:44:45] Matt: That is interesting. So you see it becoming more specialized into those areas, like the shopping, the B2B lead
[00:44:52] Sarah: Yes and no. So yes, because of the deep knowledge to like the HubSpot integrations. the, I personally prefer e comm. I feel like tracking’s easier. I think lead gen tends to be harder. That said, I think when specialization is taken too far, specialization combined with the decrease in cost pressures, you get agencies that, you know, I know a plumber’s going to be easy, so I’m going to do it this way over and over again.
[00:45:25] Sarah: So the one over here looks exactly like this one when that’s not the case. So it gets taken too far, which is when a high level specialist like myself were to come into play to say, Oh, this is what happened. They were applying the exact same strategy. And because you’re in, Oh, I think you and I might’ve talked about this one, the car dealership in Miramar Beach.
[00:45:48] Sarah: the monster truck dealership, because you’re located here with this unique clientele, Sabrina, and what I said earlier, your business needs to be treated this way. So I understand the niche and the desire, but the niche went too far in this case.
[00:46:05] Matt: I love that you outline the skills that there, there’s a data analysis skill, and then there is the translation of that data to the client, the storytelling. And I love that you pick that out because that is such a critical part of my teaching is you can know the data, but if you can’t translate it.
[00:46:28] Matt: And communicate it to a client, to a manager. It’s going to inhibit your career. And so I love that you pulled that out as well as just the focus on continual learning. it’s so critical in this Industry.
[00:46:39] Sarah: Yeah. And like just compassion, so I often, especially when I’m dealing with big clients and I get some of the questions that maybe are silly. Like I’ve seen people that will get a question and they’ll laugh at it. Where versus maybe because I used to be a substitute teacher, or I’ll answer it as much as I can in different ways over and over again, because having been on the client side, you’re not in Google ads all day, you’re And so I may ask a question that is silly, but it’s also because I’m being grilled by my business partners on the client side, or I’m at the cafeteria having lunch and I’m being asked, what I’m, The impressions and what clicks look like today.
[00:47:23] Sarah: I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t look at it every day, but when you look at it every single day, I can look at some of my biggest clients and be like, this is the conversion rate, these are the clicks are getting, this is where they’re coming from because I’m in it all day. And so I think having that compassion towards clients and understanding like they have a boss too, they’re not just asking this question, they’re asking They’re being asked that, and they’re having to answer intelligently when they’re not doing the work all day.
[00:47:57] Matt: Yes.
[00:47:58] Sarah: Humility,
[00:47:58] Matt: That is a great point. And, something I think, I’ve been thinking about this, about, we need to do a podcast just on client management. because so much, of your success, if you are independent, if you have an agency, if you’re doing consulting or anything like that, that, that client management piece and that empathy is so, so important. Sarah, this has been just an absolutely wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for coming in today and just sharing with us about, what you’ve done and where you see the industry.
[00:48:35] Sarah: Yeah. Awesome. thank you for having me. Anytime, you wanna dive deep, I’ll be more of them open to chatting,
[00:48:42] Matt: I will take you up on that. Absolutely. Thank you, Sarah.
[00:48:47] Matt: All right. And thank you dear listener for tuning into another edition of the Endless Coffee Cup. I hope, your cup of coffee was as good as mine and I look forward to our next conversation.
